The Art of the Ask - Don Yaeger on Why Curiosity Beats Tactics: EP 001

Shari Levitin: [: 00:00:00

and right, I and I, it's just strange because between your books and your own podcast, you get millions of views and so I told you " Don? I'd like you to be our podcast guest, and we have an audience, the size of which you've never seen before."

Don Yaeger: Of UNO,

Brent Adamson: Yeah,

Shari Levitin: Zero listeners,

Brent Adamson: the

Don Yaeger: the O.

Shari Levitin: zero followers. Will you be our first guest? And you said yes.

Don Yaeger: Absolutely.

Shari Levitin: So

Brent Adamson: go wrong? It's kind of a no risk agreement. So we appreciate you, Don. Thank you.

Shari Levitin: , Now for those of you listeners who don't know, Don Yeager, you've been living under a rock. First of all, I'm gonna tell you what chat GPT said about you. Okay,

Don. So I

Don Yaeger: ever done that

[: 00:01:00

I know Brent's very excited to ask you questions about that. You've reported from places like Baghdad and Afghanistan, but that is not why I asked you to be our first guest.

Don Yaeger: Now I wanna know what it is that I did in my not so illustrious career to earn this honor

Shari Levitin: This honor of this huge audience. So it was about six months ago and you and I were sharing a stage, uh, doing keynotes,

but I was the backup band. You were like the main attraction and I heard you were gonna be there. And I asked the host, I said, can I come a day early? I've gotta see Don Yager speak.

me in a day early to see you [: 00:02:00

Don Yaeger: Well, thank you. What an honor. And, um, yeah, it was an incredible honor when you shared that you had come in a day early to listen, so I was, uh, I was, I was taken by it. Thank you.

in Hilo, and I wanted to ask [: 00:03:00

He is an incredible storyteller, and Brent said something great. He said, actually, I believe Don is an incredible story extractor.

Don Yaeger: Hmm.

Shari Levitin: So I just wanted to know, did your growing up in Hilo impact that, was there something else? How did you learn to do that? I.

Don Yaeger: Well, it, it, it is a childhood thing, but I, I would argue that it was because I'm the son of a preacher. My dad was a preacher, and he, um, you know, he used to argue that the best, uh, the best communicators are always storytellers. And the best storytellers are always the best listeners. And, too often we think of storytelling as a, as an art of action.

back, asking a question and [: 00:04:00

What you become is this kind of conduit of, uh, and stories become kind of the, the coin of the realm. And it's, uh, for me, that was the thing I watched my father do really masterfully. And I watched him pay attention as he listened to people. He was a very intentional listener, not an active listener, but an intentional one, which meant he wasn't thinking about his next question while he was listening to you.

that I watched him practice [: 00:05:00

And Brent, thank you very much. I think, um, uh, that is what I hope to be known for one day, not as a storyteller, but as a story collector. Right. Just that if I can extract them from other people, that's the, that's the greatest gift somebody can give me, is to trust me with their story.

Shari Levitin: So your father was a preacher, I imagine he was very busy.

Don Yaeger: Mm-hmm.

Shari Levitin: Did he listen to you as a child? Because I often hear stories of what they did professionally isn't what our relationship was personally.

house, he was busy down the [: 00:06:00

And that was a point of resentment. It took me years to get through that with him and to come to an understanding that that's just who he, that that was what he was called to do. Right. And I had to accept that. Um, but yeah, there was a, there was friction as a kid and, um, but I, you know, I, I would tell you he was one of the greatest, he's probably the greatest influence in my life, even for all of that.

Brent Adamson: It's interesting, Don, it's, it's, it's a little bit of the cobbler's children, isn't it? It's, and

it's funny because, and, and I can say the words cobbler's children to you when you say that, right? 'cause you know exactly what I'm talking about, right? Which is this is, um,

Don Yaeger: No

Brent Adamson: it is, right? It's like, you know, the, the, the, the shoemaker's children are running around, no shoes on.

And it, it's the, um. The reason I mention this is because this happens all the time, doesn't it? Whether in your family or just in general? You know, I used to work at a company where we would write best practices for other companies. We'd travel all over the world, teach other companies, like all these great best practice.

You look inside our own company, it's like, wow, this is the most dysfunctional

place I've ever [: 00:07:00

I wonder if sometimes you look in the mirror and think to yourself like, I need to take my own advice. I just like, 'cause I, I would make that, I would imagine that would make you a human being. You're like a normal person. I don't know.

Don Yaeger: I think that's very true and I think, um, you know, to the cobbler's children, example, you know, I, I, I have so many friends like Sherry and others who are in the speaking world, who, you know, when it's time for me to try to get something through to my own teenagers, um, I could do it all day long.

istens to. Me. Um, but I can [: 00:08:00

You know? Anyway,

Brent Adamson: Well, let me ask you this. You brought up kids. Well, we brought up kids. Let me, let me ask you something. ' cause I, I'd love to go back and just get a little bit more context for those who may not know you in your incredible body of work. When you're, maybe because this is how it goes down to my house.

Um, uh, so I'm on my own as an independent right now, just written another book. We're gonna go out and do training on it. I, I'm a researcher, I'm a writer, I'm an author, I'm a speaker, all that kinda stuff. But when my kids, I have a high school, my younger one's now in high school and she says, dad, my, my friends were asking me their day, what do you do for a living? And, and I don't know what to tell them. And I looked at her and said, I don't know what to tell them either. I mean, do you, how do, how do you tell what, what do you, what do you do in your mind, Don? Like, when

someone asks you, what do you do? What, what do you do? I mean, I know what

aper resume, but what do you [: 00:09:00

Don Yaeger: So my kids have had that same conversation. Well, you know, Sophie's dad is a lawyer and, you know, and Jimmy's dad is a, is a doctor, and I'm, and when I get asked, I'm like, my dad tells stories and, uh, and everybody goes and he gets paid for that. Um, and, you know, and then my kids are able to convince 'em that I somehow, I, I make a living, which is good.

Brent Adamson: Because that's what I, you know, it's funny you say that 'cause that's what I lay on too. I, I'm a storyteller,

Don Yaeger: different forms, different fashions, whether it's, you know, on my podcast, um, or whether it's on, you know, a, a stage or whether it's in a book. I, I'm, my goal is to tell a story that will make you turn to the next page.

Brent Adamson: What kind of stories do you like to tell?

set of circumstances around [: 00:10:00

I love to tell the stories of people who are misunderstood.

urprised and you sort of got [: 00:11:00

skin, like, wow, I never

knew that.

Don Yaeger: I would tell you, I mean, I did a book last year, came out last year with, um, Deion Sanders, the coach at Colorado, you know, legendary football, bas football, baseball player. Um, you know, and, and he's a, he's a person that, that, uh, many people have very strong opinions about one way or the other. Um, and frankly I did too when I was engaged to begin the conversation with, begin writing with him, and, uh, wasn't sure I was the right one, wasn't sure it was the right fit for me, and then within 30 minutes, um, he and I are kind of, we're, we're in a place, uh, in his life that is so dark that you wouldn't even imagine that somebody of his fame will have had to go there.

, I realized, you know what, [: 00:12:00

And so most people don't go there. And if I can create the atmosphere where he's safe and he'll share it, and then I can recreate the atmosphere. For readers in a way that that is safe for him as well. Um, I get to help people understand who he is and it's, um, um, it was enormously meaningful.

Brent does. I was thinking. [: 00:13:00

not to talk about a real struggle, not the struggle that you sort of contrive and, oh, I'll tell this story about this struggle and then this great thing happened.

xperts will say, oh, no, no, [: 00:14:00

And I, I was very curious and wanted to get there, but you got there sooner than, uh, I, I probably would have. But how do you navigate that? Or is that not an issue for you?

Don Yaeger: so I'm a cancer survivor, right? And it was a, um, it was an emotional set of circumstances that happened when I was in my early forties. Um, and, um, uh, I actually have one speech in which I have one line where I make a reference to the fact that I had cancer, uh, but that I am today cancer free.

the worst two weeks of your [: 00:15:00

And so yeah, that's probably, that's one of those places where I, I try to be a little authentic by offering that. And I realize I can't go too far. 'cause then it, it actually just, it, you know, it makes, I would, I'd be a, you know, babbling idiot, uh, standing on a stage if I had to dig deep into the conversation about what going through cancer treatment was like.

Um, and I, um, I'm for all these years later, I'm still not ready to go there.

Brent Adamson: in many ways, the whole point of this podcast is to explore. Sort of the human side and the human connections of the sales profession.

So Sherry and I, of course, spend all of our time working with sales and marketing organizations around the world trying to help them go to market more effectively. But she and I deeply believe and very sincerely believe that at the heart of all of that effort is, is really human connection and, and, and creating better, stronger, higher quality, for lack of a better word, human connection, um, is if you want to be, is a, is a better way to sell more stuff.

a better way to live a more [: 00:16:00

And I completely understand exactly what you're saying there's another side. It was just like, this, be your authentic self, which is, I don't know, it feels almost like, it's like it and super ego type stuff. Like, we're gonna get kind of Freud. It's like, no, be your authentic self, but not that authentic. You know? Do you know what I mean? It's like, so sometimes I show my authentic self, it's like, no, dude, that, that's, that was a little too authentic for my taste. So there's, there's kind of, there's breaks on these things too, aren't there?

Shari Levitin: Right. It's like the vulnerability hangover, you know, every,

like, there's these buzzwords, right? Be authentic, be vulnerable,

and then like you're with [: 00:17:00

Don Yaeger: I

could have lived without that detail. Yeah.

Shari Levitin: No, it's a, it's a fine balance. And that's why I thought I would ask that question because, um, you, you know, you're sort of confronted with that all the time when you're a public figure and you, you want to be that authentic self, but then you also have to think about what you're putting the audience through, right?

Like,

not everybody needs to go there, and certainly they don't need to see me depending on the group. I mean, I was with a women's group one time and, um, I just, you know, like authentic vulnerable stuff I never talk about in a podcast, but it works. So I, I do think it depends on who the audience is and, and why you're there and, and all of those things.

And like Brent said, we are looking at, um, bringing a lot of people in that aren't necessarily, um, sales gurus, but really understand, um, the art of connection. I always say to sell more, you have to first be more.

And again, that was the [: 00:18:00

Don Yaeger: Thank you. You said you bring, you, sell people, but you know, authentic connection. I think the two are ab are inextricably linked. I think to sell more, you do have to create authentic connection. And if you're, if this world is done with transactional, um, you know, relationships, I really do believe that.

I think we've just, I, I, I don't think, I don't think people gravitate to those anymore at, at any level. And I don't think this is generational. I don't think this is, you know, oh, we have to worry about the Gen Zs and the millennials. No, this is. This is who we have become. And I, I think if you are, um, if you're not willing to, um, to, to work at creating connection, and that's what, and it is work, right?

only product that does what [: 00:19:00

And creating connection is an art form.

Brent Adamson: You know, I was talking down to someone at a, one of these big, well-known huge companies that we all know that is particularly investing in AI and, um, agentive and all that kind of stuff. And the, uh, and even they said something really interesting, they said here at our own company that we spend all of our time talking about, hey, how AI is gonna offload, you know, uh, repetitive tasks, thus freeing up humans for higher value activities.

He said, you know, the funny thing is we never really sit around and define what we mean by higher value activities. Like, what does that, what does that actually mean? And I think that to me is sort of, I dunno if the hill I'll die on, but certainly the hill I wanna climb for the next five, 10 years is to be, you know, not that we haven't all is a species been doing this for millennia, but like what does that mean?

chines could do so much more [: 00:20:00

And, and and sort of thinking about what I might say and the advice I might provide and experience I've had it, it occurred to me that when I think of like, the best interactions I've had with clients and audience members, particularly one-on-one, it's not when I'm telling stories, but when I'm helping them tell their story.

eally sat down to figure out [: 00:21:00

I dunno if extraction is too, sort of almost hygienic, but this idea of how do I get people to share their stories? Any tips or thoughts that that would make someone effective in doing it? Particularly in a sales, you know, in a sales environment. I've, I've, maybe I've never met you before. Maybe I've got, you know, I thought what you said about Deion Sanders is really beautiful.

It's like in, within 30 minutes, it's like, you know, what's the, what's in within 90 seconds version of that?

Don Yaeger: I teach storytelling as well as I know she does, and I, as, as, as I know you do too, Brent. But one of the things that, um, that I've learned over the years that I think is the greatest, I, I think there are two places where most storytellers fail if they're trying to tell story, stories of, of impact, right.

eaning. Um, and the first is [: 00:22:00

I mean, I think you, you, you, you, you should get sued for, for not doing the work, right? If you, if you don't show up, uh, well prepared. And so, um, I actually have argued for many years, I've, I've kind of taught this lesson as well, that I think there's a series of concentric circles that work in the, uh, in the ability to kind of create the open door for your story to be heard better, or your questions maybe to be, reacted to differently.

research, right? What do you [: 00:23:00

I ask for, you know, I, I ask for a list of names of people who are gonna be in the room and I'll, I'll, uh, dispatch a couple interns. I'll do some work myself, and I'll spend, a couple hours preparing to know who's sitting in the room, right? What do I, what do I know about 'em? Um, and so that's the, that's that outer circle.

ow. That I know they went to [: 00:24:00

And by the way, I've spent a lot of time on the campus. I loved my time with John Wooden, right? So outer circle, I get to know a little about them. Second circle, I share a little about what we have in common, right? And that brings you to that center circle, which is the opportunity to ask a question you might not otherwise get a chance to ask, um, or to even, um, uh, share a story that you might not or have your story heard differently, right?

Heard more, um, actively because they, they understand that you actually are someone of interest to them. I, I argue all the time, nothing makes someone more interested in you than when they find out you've taken time to show interest in them.

Brent Adamson: Yeah.

Don Yaeger: invest a little bit of time in learning something about you, then I've found a point of connection between us.

make my story more effective [: 00:25:00

And then that brings us to third, third level. I, when I teach that often I share, um, an opportunity I had a number of years ago to, uh, I was invited to, to spend a day with Michael Jordan. And the day I was spending with him, um, was his 50th birthday, and he had invited a handful of, uh, just a, a small group of reporters who he knew to kind of get a chance to spend the day writing a story about.

And I found, you know, that [: 00:26:00

Um, his father thought that Jordan was a, you know, a game playing fool because he thought Jordan should be focused on work and not playing games all the time. And, um, and so I decided in my conversation with him to share that I had a strained relationship with my own father. And we talked a little bit about dads, and we talked about in this very small way, we had something in common.

I'm never gonna have anything else in common with Michael Jordan, other than the fact that we both struggle to gain and keep our father's attention and affection. And we both often failed to reach that.

Shari Levitin: Yeah,

Brent Adamson: a kind of vulnerability, isn't it, that you have to be

willing to, um, uh, uh, demonstrate, I guess, right.

Don Yaeger: right.

ed him, I said, Michael, you [: 00:27:00

And often when I'm teaching this, I'll then play the recording of what Jordan said to me next. And you hear our conversation in which he tells his story about being a 10-year-old little boy trying to get his dad's attention and affection. His dad's working on a car out in the garage. And so Michael's out there just trying to, just trying to get his dad to pay attention to him.

The dad calls on Michael to hand him a wrench. And Michael doesn't know what a nine 16 wrench looks like, and he hands him the wrong wrench and his dad comes out and he says, dude, I don't know why you're even out here. Like, why don't you go out there? Why don't you go in there and, and spend the rest of the afternoon with the ladies?

Right. Pointing to the, to the inside of the house.

e still remembered the line. [: 00:28:00

Michael Jordan spent the rest of his life trying to get his dad to say, good job.

Brent Adamson: And,

Don Yaeger: He would tell me that he'd never, he'd never shared that before in any conversation.

Brent Adamson: What do, what was the moment? What was the thing that you did? I, I, you kind of said it, but I would When did you win the right to hear that story?

Don Yaeger: he recognized that I had. Identified something that was not typically a point of his conversation.

And then when I made the point of connection to show that we had this little thing in common, that we both struggled to try to find that, that that line to affection, you know, that line of, of relationship with a father that we both wish we had.

By the way, if I don't do those two things, I can't ask that question.

credible evidence that Don's [: 00:29:00

It's different in a more human connection perhaps. I don't, I don't wanna overanalyze it or over, or put words in your mouth, but there, there's this, like, this moment's like, oh, this guy gets me. I think, isn't that, is that what like, Jordan's like, this guy kind of

Don Yaeger: And, and, and if you think about it, it's hard for Michael Jordan to say, this guy gets me

Brent Adamson: What? Well, I'm sure he did say it right. Totally

Don Yaeger: you know what I mean? But, but, uh, but to your point, Brent, I think you're right. But you know, he would never say this guy gets me. But intellectually he's probably going, wow, he just opened up to me that he struggled and that we have this same issue, right?

We both couldn't find a way to get our dad's attention. Let me tell him this story, and he tells me a story. And afterward he literally says, you know what? I have spent a lifetime doing interviews. I've never, I've never shared that story before.

feel like, um, you're right. [: 00:30:00

Don Yaeger: I thought our audience was zero right now,

Shari Levitin: Right. But, but we're thinking that this is so poignant that it's

Don Yaeger: so it's a large

zero.

Shari Levitin: by next

Brent Adamson: It's a really big zero.

ike this, but is there not a [: 00:31:00

Shari Levitin: Okay, they're going to use chat GPT to get all of this information, maybe double check it with perplexity. Check. Check. Okay, I've got all this information about the person. Okay. Um, I'm gonna, you know, try to find this personal connection. And it's almost like, how do they not go there too soon? Actually, um, undo everything that they're trying to create.

Actually lose trust because you just gave, it was too much, too fast. You're trying to sell me software and, and now you're talking about my dad.

a little bit of experience, [: 00:32:00

Are you paying? Because, no, I couldn't have opened my time with Michael Jordan with that, right? I had, that was, it was in the flow, right? We're talking, we're talking, Hey, by the way, I wanna talk to you about your dad. I know, you know, blah, blah, blah. Right? Um, and it, it has to be in the flow and it can't, it can't be abrupt.

It can't be, you know, um, a big piece. But, but at the end of the day, if you're really trying to sell me that piece of software, so is the guy that I met with before and the guy I'm gonna meet with after, um. Why you? And if you're busy trying to sell the, the qualities of your software, trust me, they are on either end of you doing the same thing.

and what makes you stand out [: 00:33:00

It could be that you both love, you know, fly fishing, right? Um, whatever it is looking, you know, trying to build those, those concentric circles is a real key to me in what allows for good, um, a good, good storytelling, but good relationship building. And, um, you know, I mean, the number of times I'm doing a pre-call for a speech, I, you know, look, I, I just did one a few minutes ago, right?

went to University of North [: 00:34:00

and age, it still surprises people.

Shari Levitin: You, it's digging deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. And it sounds like asking the questions that nobody else would even think to ask. And I remember when we did an interview for NSA, you said something that blew my mind, um, about your own podcast, which was just like, who does this? But you were saying, and I don't remember who it was you were talking to, you were talking to somebody and you were asking them about their. Coach, you know, like their middle school coach that had a huge impact on them. 'cause of course your podcast is all about, um, this correlation, which I also find fascinating that so many C-suite executives, and particularly women were athletes, uh, when they were in college.

Like something like 92% I think you

ked somebody a question that [: 00:35:00

So you not only found out the information, then you took the time to talk to the coach. And then I'm thinking like, how many salespeople actually like talk to the customer's

customer, right? Or how many salespeople would go that far out of their way? And yet it almost feels like that's part of your secret sauce, but it doesn't feel like a technique to me.

Don, it feels like you've got this insatiable

curiosity about humans, and I guess I'd like to understand where does that come from?

hrough my chosen profession. [: 00:36:00

And that's, you know, we made a reference to that earlier. Right? It's often what we place out on social media. It's, you know, it's, and everybody on social media is either unbelievably good. Here we are on the, on the, you know, the beaches of Monaco, right. You know, waiting for the race to begin, you know.

Aren't I awesome? Uh, or it's, you know, boy, my life is a disaster. Um, you know, uh, you know, I've got this challenge or that challenge or my kids are going through this. Um, that's what social media is, right? It's a complete, um, but that unfortunately is the way most people kind of believe they should live their life, right?

believe there's always that [: 00:37:00

Um, and my desire as a journalist is, was always that. And then it became my desire as an author and my desire as a speaker and my desire as a podcast host. I want to, I wanna go next level, and if I can do that in everything I do. I think, um, ultimately things will work out for me.

Brent Adamson: I've been wondering this a lot and, and I think you're the perfect person to ask this of, and I, I don't, I I'm not trying to catch you out. I'm legitimately just curious how this works for all of us, including maybe you, because you write about greatness, you write about leadership, and you interview incredible people who have had incredible careers and, and, and you find the darkness you mentioned in Deion and, and Michael Jordan as well.

t been curious since I was a [: 00:38:00

And now, and now I have to be curious. I just don't care, Deion. I'm just not that curious. Or like, it's good for Don. So he's been curious since he was a kid. I'm just not that guy. So there, you know, so, and it goes back to this point about greatness is like good for Michael Jordans, but I can't do that. It's how do you. Uh, do you think about this a lot or, or not?

Don Yaeger: I've thought about it because some people have said that to me, like, you know what, boy, I, I couldn't do what you do. And I'm going, I, I, I disagree. Like I, but, but again, it, it's because how I'm wired. I, I mean, I, I think in story, I see, I listen to people and I reduce their story to, to, you know, to to 60 seconds.

the opportunity you have to [: 00:39:00

You probably don't need to know much about him other than you might wanna ask why they're not using a pen. Um, but sorry, that's the

Brent Adamson: No, no, it's good by the way, by this, I think this works for marriage too in a thousand other contexts, right? This is, it's kind of a life lesson, isn't it? But I, yeah.

Shari Levitin: What and, and what comes up for me as I'm thinking about this, as my dad always taught me, you, you know, we have to practice curiosity, empathy, and patience. Like we practice a sport

or an instrument. And you can't just say, well, I'm not a curious person anymore than Jordan could have said when he was 12.

I'm not a basketball player. I don't how to dribble

like we have to. If we want to develop curiosity, then guess what? We can't have different versions of ourselves. I then I'm going to develop it with my child. I'm going to listen better. I'm going to, in my community,

I [: 00:40:00

Don Yaeger: right? Yeah. It is not, I mean, I think someone saying I'm not curious, um, is a cop out. I think all of us innately, we wanna know something about people, right? We wanna know. Um, I think, you know, you, you don't go on a date and not wanna know if, if, if you go on a date and all you come, all you went for was to talk about yourself.

Shari Levitin: no. I've been on plenty of those. Don, trust me. That,

that, that, was the last was thinking that, dad, do you not

No, no. You have no idea what, what guys do in the dating world. It's been a

while for you. I know.

Brent Adamson: enough about me. Now you talk about me. Right,

Don Yaeger: yeah, exactly. I, I'm tired of talking about me. Would you repeat some of

ooking for a way not, but by [: 00:41:00

And because others have figured this out. Right? This is a, this, the, this is the ultimate in, in human nature, is looking out for, looking for an opportunity to kind of create some kind of a bond with others. And you, you, you do so by being observant. And by asking questions. And, and when you do those things, you, you open doors that you might never have imagined opened.

Brent Adamson: Uh, on that point, Dan, let me, let me ask you, as, as you go through your sort of, I guess, circles is how you put 'em, right? So the concentric circles of getting to a place where you make this human connection,

Don Yaeger: Yeah, I was gonna go concentric squares, but they didn't really work that

Brent Adamson: But then there's similar squares. Yeah. I don't know. But anyway, the, uh, but let me ask you the, so at the center of this, here's how, because there's something about what you do and, and a little bit of what I do, and certainly what sellers do that's really interesting is there's this asymmetry in these relationships.

people you talk Condoleezza [: 00:42:00

You know what I mean? And so, and it's very, and I, again, no offense at all to you and bad

Don Yaeger: No, no, no. By the way, I, I, I think I know where your question's going. I, I, I can't wait.

Brent Adamson: Because it's similar to a, a salesperson, particularly a younger salesperson, when I speak to college students who are 21, 22, and they're about to go call on vice presidents of some big bank, right?

Or a senior, or they're gonna be in the, you know, the, the boardroom of some organization. They then, they're really freaked out about this asymmetry of information. And so for me, one of these last steps that I sort of engage in personally when I go into one of these conversations is a mindset. And the mindset step is to remind myself they're, they're a human being like you are.

And this human

us to connect even when the, [: 00:43:00

you do that consciously as well?

Don Yaeger: So I actually, uh, I, I talk about this often that when, that, that the upside of doing these concentric circles, um, is it levels the playing field. Remember I said to you before, Michael Jordan, I'll never have Michael Jordan's skill,

Brent Adamson: right

Don Yaeger: but I had this one little thing in common with him, right? We both struggled with our relationship, that we desperately wanted to be better, and neither one of us could figure out how to, how to, how to turn the corner, right?

And, um, and so I, I believe that when you, when you do the right research and then you find the right common ground, everything comes down to level. Right now they are no longer the vice president of some big organization. And I'm a 21-year-old salesperson. Now we're, we're actually two peers in a conversation.

wo people in a conversation. [: 00:44:00

They're, they're the seller or they're the buyer. They're up there and I'm down here. The truth is, um, when we do this right, we, we level, we level set, and it's um, and the game changes. The game

Shari Levitin: I'd love to just go somewhere with John Wooden here

'cause I, I know that John Wooden, uh, became your mentor and I'm thinking of when John Wooden became your mentor and you asked John Wooden to be your mentor.

'cause I don't know the whole story. W were you Don Yeager yet? When,

I mean, I was a journalist, [: 00:45:00

I mean, I was at Sports Illustrated, but I, you know, and that's a, in my profession, kind of a good deal. But it's, but I, but I hadn't written a bunch of bestselling books. I hadn't done all these other things. If, if that's the way we're framing it, I had not yet really gotten there.

Shari Levitin: how does he become your mentor? How does John Wooden the

greatest good? Like what, what happened?

e Los Angeles Lakers and was [: 00:46:00

And I'd heard through my friend that Shaq was going out every month to spend part of an afternoon with John Wooden. And I asked, what, what, what were they doing? And he said, well, John Wooden has become his mentor. And I thought, here's 26-year-old Shaq, 88-year-old John Wooden, uh, outside of basketball.

Like they have nothing in common. Really? You know, Shaq is making bad movies like Kazam and, you know, um, John Wooden wouldn't even watch a bad movie like Kazam. Um, and so how so I asked for permission. Could I come one day when you tour together? They agreed, they, they granted me that opportunity. I sat there and for three hours they never once talked about basketball.

opportunity with this icon, [: 00:47:00

I get up, I said, coach Wooden, that was magical watching your influence on this young man. But I've just gotta ask like, how does somebody become mentored by John Wooden? And he looked at me and he said, you ask. And I said, well, gosh, how many people ask? And he said, not as many as you might think. He said, most people walk themselves out of most mo opportunities to be mentored by someone because they failed to ask.

I was like, wow. I was like, go away, write this little story. Reach back to Coach Wooden. He, I asked him if he read it, and he did. He was very kind, and I said, coach, as I was standing there, I felt like I was supposed to ask. And he said, what took you so long? And we started there and went for 12 years. Every other

Brent Adamson: [: 00:48:00

Don Yaeger: every other month, I would fly, fly to California for a day with Coach Wooden.

Brent Adamson: He was 88 at the time. He was a 12 years, 80, a hundred. So tell me the how

Don Yaeger: He was 99. He was 99 and a half when he died. And I met with him. I, I met with him. Well, I wasn't counting on you doing the math rights, so I was doing it for you,

but

Brent Adamson: Thank you. Probably good. Yeah, I, I told you I'm from Omaha, you know, the

, do you see it as almost, I [: 00:49:00

'cause you talk so much about leadership, you talk to leaders and opportunity for them and almost maybe even a responsibility for them to also manage this asymmetry as opposed to just, you know, leave it to this person down here to try to find their way to connect up is, is,

do you know where I'm

Don Yaeger: Totally, totally agree. Totally agree. In fact, I have a podcast that that's, that's coming out here soon with the CEO of Denny's, right. The, the restaurant chain. And she decided several years ago to open up and tell her employee base that, that she was adopted. And she, it took her till she was 47 to find her adoptive parents.

s a life story. And, and out [: 00:50:00

Do you mind if I share mine? And so by, by find and by the way, so it doesn't have to be, you know, I mean, Brent, I get it. You're, you're a schmo from Omaha. And I mean, I can see that in you. Um,

but it doesn't, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be something self-deprecating like that. Sometimes it can literally just be sharing a little bit about who you are, right?

Sometimes it's just you, you open the door for others to find relational moments with you if you're willing to, to just share a little bit about who you are.

ome of my best friends today [: 00:51:00

And, and I think in some ways it's because they were just, as much as I tried very hard to make that connection and sort of overcome asymmetry from my side is that they were willing to do the same from theirs. And that it's a, it's turned into a just a really beautiful thing. And it always becomes this, like, this way to almost think about from, you know, in sales where I always talk about sort of opportunity qualification, who's worth my time.

But there's also, just from a personal standpoint, like who's worth my time is someone who's willing to think that I'm worth their time. It's a,

Don Yaeger: Hmm. That's a really good line. That's a great line.

Shari Levitin: Um, now, you know, your phone's gonna blow up right now, Don, 'cause everybody's gonna say, will you be my mentor?

Will you be my mentor? Will you

as a, a seller or a leader, [: 00:52:00

And, um, it just always gets me back to my roots of, um, not what I need to do, but who I need to be. And I think that's really what I got out of this is it's not so much ever what you do, it's who you need to be while you're doing it. And, uh, thank you for that. Uh, I think people would like to know. I've got two more questions for you. We know that selling isn't everything, Brent, but it's something, right?

So what is that something for you in all of this? What does it mean?

a period of time. If I sell [: 00:53:00

If I sell more books, I get a chance to write more books. And so selling for me is, um, is an opportunity to, um, to just in increase my opportunities. It's just an opportunity to increase my opportunities and if I can, um, so I focus on selling be because I want the chance to have. More influence because I want the chance to have more opportunity because I want to teach storytelling again next week.

You know, I do it so that I get a chance to do more of it. And, um, so it might not be everything, but it is important.

Shari Levitin: And Don, how does our huge audience get ahold of you for keynotes?

Don Yaeger: Well, I don't want 'em all to do it at

Shari Levitin: workshops? Yeah. I, I mean, you know,

it could get a

we could, we could bust the, [: 00:54:00

Shari Levitin: know, and I know you're already booking out. I actually do know that you're already booking out, uh, for Q1 of next year. 'cause I know a couple people who are hiring you. But, um, how, how do people get ahold of you, uh, for your wealth of knowledge and wisdom? Uh.

Don Yaeger: it's just the easiest is just don yaeger.com. And by the way, my last name is Y-A-E-G-E-R. Um, but. Knowing that most people misspell it. I, I also own other, I own all the other spellings of my name, um, on the internet and they all direct you to the right place. So you can botch my name and you'll likely still find

Brent Adamson: D do you under the JA

Umla, GER.

Shari Levitin: like

Don Yaeger: do.

Shari Levitin: How's Jagermeister

Don Yaeger: Ja Jager Meers. J-A-G-E-R-M-E-I-S-D-E-R.

Brent Adamson: Yeah. I told you Sherri, it is a, Jaeger is German for Hunter. So this is so, I

dunno if you own Don Hunter or not, but that would be actually really cool. That would be like

next

fact, I used to own a comedy [: 00:55:00

Brent Adamson: Nice.

Don Yaeger: yeah.

Brent Adamson: All right, let's do that on episode. When, uh, then when we bring you back for our, our,

Shari Levitin: on episode 250,

Brent Adamson: right. And, and I wanna hear about the, the, the sports club comedy bar there. Yeah, we'll talk about that. Don, thank you so much for

Shari Levitin: Thank you so much, Don.

Brent Adamson: You.

Don Yaeger: Thanks. I love you guys.

Brent Adamson: Cheers.